Ask more questions using the 'Freedom of Information Act'

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Dave
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Ask more questions using the 'Freedom of Information Act'

I have been attempting to obtain the radiation levels at Ground Zero after the two atomic bombs Pennant and Burgee in 1958. I was serving with 61 Fd Sqn, 38 CER and one of my tasks was to pick up all the radioactive debris at Ground Zero two hours after detonation of the bombs. The MOD managed to lose my radiation Film Badges: They did not bother to keep records of the readings for my QFE dosimeters: The blood count I had taken before the tests is in my records but the blood count taken after the tests is missing: I had a Lymph node removed at the RAF Hospital Aden two years after the nuclear tests and the results of the lymph node examination has never been revealed: I have attempted to obtain the hospital records but they cannot be traced.

The MOD are refusing to reveal the radiation levels I received, so I took them to a First Tier Tribunal on the 16 February 2012 for refusing to answer Freedom of Information Questions. The result of my action should be revealed during the week of 27 February 2012.

Perhaps it is time for all interested parties to bombard the MOD with questions relating to their time at the nuclear test sites instead of leaving the questioning to others. I was the first Nuclear Veteran to take the MOD to a tribunal why don't others try and do the same? It could help the legal team to discover answers.

Dave

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Hi Dave,

I was just wondering if you had heard anything from them yet regarding the results of the Tribunal?

Regards

~ Jo ~

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Hello Jo,

I have heard nothing as yet.   I sent a letter to over 1,000 Members of Both the House of Lords and the Commons this week and it included an excellent report on the tribunal by Dennis Hayden, one of the founder Members of the CVFI (Combined Veterans forum International).   I also included the statement regarding my case which I had intended to read out but did not need to do so in detail.

I don't know if I will be able to up-load a copy but I will try.

Dave

Dave

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Hello Jo,

I have attempted to up-load the letter and attachmnts without success.   Is there an e-mail address I can send it to for inclusion on the site?

All the best

Dave

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Hi Dave,

Thanks for sending those through smiley I've converted them into PDFs and attached them to your last comment.

I'll read through them over the weekend.

Kind Regards

~ Jo ~

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Hi Dave,

Sorry for not replying sooner, i haven't had the time until now to read through all the documents. I have a few questions/comments about them and will post these as soon as i can.

Btw, have you heard anything from the Tribunal yet?

Also did you receive any response to the letter you sent to the MPs?

~ Jo ~

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In the letter you sent to the MPs you said:

All the nuclear Veterans could have had an m-FISH blood analysis to prove whether or not they had suffered genetic damage. (This blood analysis is routinely given to Civilian Nuclear workers but denied to nuclear Veterans - even on the offer of payment).

Could this test not be done privately/independently?

~ Jo ~

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Hello Jo,


It appears my answer has vanished.  I have tried labortories up and down the Country but nobody will do the blood analysis even on the offer of payment.   There is obviously some hold over the laboratories by the Ministry of Defence.  Due to the delaying tactics by the Ministry of Defence there is a new blood analysis which has been developed called the M-BAND and from all accounts it is far superior to the M-FISH.   The legal team are now demanding the M-Band for all veterans rather than the M-FISH.   To think, if the Ministry of Defence had done the honourable thing fifty years ago and compensated all the Veterans in would have cost them a minimal amount but because of their bellicose attitude over the years new information and techniques have been discovered and it will now cost many £millions to settle our claims.


I am still waiting on the result of my First Tier Tribunal regarding the refusal of the Ministry of Defence to supply radiation levels under the 'Freedom of Information Act.'

Dave

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I have tried labortories up and down the Country but nobody will do the blood analysis even on the offer of payment.   There is obviously some hold over the laboratories by the Ministry of Defence.

How is it legal for them to block people from having the test done privately? Surely that must be against human rights?

Have you tried contacting a laboratory in a different Country?

Due to the delaying tactics by the Ministry of Defence there is a new blood analysis which has been developed called the M-BAND and from all accounts it is far superior to the M-FISH.   The legal team are now demanding the M-Band for all veterans rather than the M-FISH.

That's good but if the MoD manages to delay things for much longer there won't be anyone left to test! sad

~ Jo ~

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Hello Jo,


Many thanks :  The Ministry of Defence appear to think they are above the law.   Sending people into highly radioactive areas without protection then altering, or hiding the evidence is a deliberate violation of Human Rights and Civil Liberties.


It appears there have to be a number of people receiving the blood analysis at the same time:  Some veterans and other Controls so it would be very costly to send a group of people overseas.   I contacted a laboratory in America regarding the M-FISH and they would have done my test for 4,000 dollars.  The problem was they were situated about 60 miles out of New York.   Another problem was they were unable to take a sample of blood, I would have had to find a Doctor or Hospital that would have been prepared to take the specimen.   


The blood has to be fresh, but there is a complicated method of treating the blood by placing it in a centrefuge and adding various chemicals.   This helps to preserve the blood for a few extra days, but I could not find a local laboratory that had the ability to carry this out.


You are right, they are waiting for all the Veterans to die off, but this will not stop the fight for justice.  The genetic damage suffered by the Veterans is transferred to their Children and Grandchildren, and will continue through the generation for the next four or five hundred years.   I intend that all my evidence will be passed down to my Nephew, then his Children and Grandchildren.   When the documents are finally revealed there will be evidence of the part succesive Governments have played in trying to hide the atrocities committed.


The British Government castigated the NAZI Doctor Joseph Mengele for carrying out human experiments, then the same Government, sanctioned the British Nuclear tests including the human experiments to discover the effects radiation had on the human body. 


 


Dave


 

Dave

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Hi Dave,

I'm really sorry it's taken me so long to reply! I've been working on improving the web site and that has taken up most of my free time.

So, any news yet?

The Ministry of Defence appear to think they are above the law.   Sending people into highly radioactive areas without protection then altering, or hiding the evidence is a deliberate violation of Human Rights and Civil Liberties.

The British Government castigated the NAZI Doctor Joseph Mengele for carrying out human experiments, then the same Government, sanctioned the British Nuclear tests including the human experiments to discover the effects radiation had on the human body.

I think that is the real reason why they are doing it. It's not because they didn't/don't believe that there was any risk it's because they experimented on you all and do not want to admit it! sad

It appears there have to be a number of people receiving the blood analysis at the same time:  Some veterans and other Controls so it would be very costly to send a group of people overseas.   I contacted a laboratory in America regarding the M-FISH and they would have done my test for 4,000 dollars.  The problem was they were situated about 60 miles out of New York.   Another problem was they were unable to take a sample of blood, I would have had to find a Doctor or Hospital that would have been prepared to take the specimen.   

The blood has to be fresh, but there is a complicated method of treating the blood by placing it in a centrefuge and adding various chemicals.   This helps to preserve the blood for a few extra days, but I could not find a local laboratory that had the ability to carry this out.

I see. Have you tried somewhere closer to home like France or Germany?

It might actually be a good idea to start a new topic specifically about this subject because there may be others on the site who would be interested in it.

~ Jo ~

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I have recently discovered that 18 samples of blood from nuclear veterans were sent, covertly, to the Leiden University in the Netherlands in the 1990's for the blood analysis Fluorescence in Situ Hybridisation (FISH).  The results have never been made public and it is doubtful if the Veterans giving their blood realised why the sample was being taken.


Can any readers of this forum recall being asked to go for a medical examination in the region of Oxford, on the pretence of checking for cataracts, and being asked to give a sample of blood?

Dave

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I have just realised I never got back regarding my First Tier Tribunal which I took the Ministry of Defence to Court for refusing to supply me with the radiation levels recorded at Ground Zero after Operations Pennant and Burgee.


I had been attempting to obtain the gamma radiation levels for over five years and I was sent up the proverbial Garden Path and told lies before I was finally told they did not exist.  It was at this stage I took the matter up with the Information Commissioner  and took the MOD to Court for failing to supply information requested under the Freedom of Information Act.


I won my case, and received the information I had been requesting with an apology from the MOD.  My next step is a War Pension Appeal tribunal which I hope will be held within the next few months.    I was issued with a radiation film badge after both Pennant and Burgee and was tasked with going into ground zero two hours after detonation of the bombs to pick up all the radioactive debris, load it into my truck, and deliver it to the decontamination centre where it was taken away by an AWRE member wearing full protective clothing and a respirator.  I was not supplied with protective clothing or a respirator to pick the stuff up but he needed it just to empty my truck (which was a tipper truck).


Needless to say, I am now informed that my radiation film badges were not returned.  Out of 14 film badges issued to my group the TSFG (Technical Services Forward Group) only TWO film badges are recorded as having been returned.  Anyone who was in the Armed Forces would realise that all hell would break loose if ONE badge went missing - yet there was silence from the authorities.  It took me over fifty years to discover the badges are alleged to have been lost.   I also carried a QFE dosimeter with me when I went into Ground Zero which showed the BETA radiation levels - mine showed 5 Roentgens per hour after both bombs (I worked for 2.5 hrs giving me a dose rate of 25 Roentgens in total for both bombs).  You will have probably guessed by now - It is alleged the Decontamination Centre Staff did not record the levels when the QFE dosimeters were returned for re-charging.


I was also given a blood count before the tests started and a follow up blood count after.  The one taken prior to the tests is in my records, but the one taken after is alleged to have disappeared.  The SAGA of incompetency does not end there:  18 months after leaving the Island I was posted to Aden and was admitted to the Royal Air Force Hospital with large lumps up my groin.  I spent 24 days in hospital and had many many medical tests carried out including a biopsy of a lymph node from my right elbow which was sent away for examination.  The result of which has never been placed in my records or revealed to me.   I have requested the hospital records but they cannot be found.


One item going missing can be an accident, if two go missing it is carelessness if three or more, in my case over six items goes missing, it is deliberate.


Michael Redfern QC did an enquiry into the removal of body parts (without the next of Kins permission) from civilian nuclear workers who had passed away and he was asked to include the nuclear Veterans.   He discovered a register of 118 lymph nodes that had been removed from various individuals but he could not say whose they were.  I checked to see if my lymph node was one of them, but was informed they did not know. 


I am fairly confident of winning my case but I will have to wait and see.


I think I have written enough to let you know there are still some people fighting for the truth to be revealed.


 


All the best


 


Dave

Dave